linux-decnet-user — Discussion for users of DECnet on Linux

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] (no subject)

[Patrick C. <pa...@ty...>]

ravi kumar wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> In my existing project LAT Protocol is running between
> Open VMS and PDP system.In PDP system RSX11M+ OS has
> installed.My requirement is I have to use the OS UNIX
> instead of VMS and communicate between UNIX and PDP
> system.There is no changes in PDP system.So my doubt
> is can I communicate between UNIX and PDP using LAT
> Protocol.If these is any chance please give me datails
> about it.Another one thing is can I use TCP/IP for
> communication between UNIX and PDP.Please anybody
> knows about it give me details about it as soon as
> possible.

http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/lat.html

-- 
patrick

[Linux-decnet-user] Regarding LAT Protocol for UNIX

[ravi k. <rav...@ya...>]

Hi all,

In my existing project LAT Protocol is running between
Open VMS and PDP system.In PDP system RSX11M+ OS has
installed.My requirement is I have to use the OS UNIX
instead of VMS and communicate between UNIX and PDP
system.There is no changes in PDP system.So my doubt
is can I communicate between UNIX and PDP using LAT
Protocol.If these is any chance please give me datails
about it.Another one thing is can I use TCP/IP for
communication between UNIX and PDP.Please anybody
knows about it give me details about it as soon as
possible.
Thnks,
with regards,
T.Ravi Kumar



		
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[Linux-decnet-user] (no subject)

[ravi k. <rav...@ya...>]

Hi all,

In my existing project LAT Protocol is running between
Open VMS and PDP system.In PDP system RSX11M+ OS has
installed.My requirement is I have to use the OS UNIX
instead of VMS and communicate between UNIX and PDP
system.There is no changes in PDP system.So my doubt
is can I communicate between UNIX and PDP using LAT
Protocol.If these is any chance please give me datails
about it.Another one thing is can I use TCP/IP for
communication between UNIX and PDP.Please anybody
knows about it give me details about it as soon as
possible.
Thnks,
with regards,
T.Ravi Kumar



		
__________________________________________________________ 
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your friends 'n family snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://in.photos.yahoo.com

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] How to tell dnetd to look in /usr/sbin for fal, cterm, etc?

[Patrick C. <pa...@ty...>]

Larry Baker wrote:
> I just finished installing dnprogs-2.27-1.SUSE.i586.rpm on a fresh SuSE 
> Linux Professional 9.3 installation.  After configuring linux-decnet the 
> way it used to be on my previous system (SuSE Linux Professional 9.1 
> with dnprogs-2.26-1.i386.rpm), I could not access FAL from a remote host 
> (%SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected).  I looked in 
> /var/log/messages, and found dnetd could not start fal because it was 
> looking in /usr/local/sbin, but fal is in /usr/sbin now.  Short of 
> editing /etc/dnetd.conf to prefix every program name with /usr/sbin, 
> what can I do?
> 

It sounds like he package has been incorrectly configured. The default 
${prefix} is /usr/local (which sounds like what you have there) - for 
packages the prefix should be set to /usr (which is what you /did/ have!)

Unless you can rebuild the package with the correct prefix, moving the 
programs is the only option really - or symlinking them from /usr/local 
but that's a bit gross!

-- 
patrick

[Linux-decnet-user] How to tell dnetd to look in /usr/sbin for fal, cterm, etc?

[Larry B. <ba...@us...>]

I just finished installing dnprogs-2.27-1.SUSE.i586.rpm on a fresh SuSE 
Linux Professional 9.3 installation.  After configuring linux-decnet 
the way it used to be on my previous system (SuSE Linux Professional 
9.1 with dnprogs-2.26-1.i386.rpm), I could not access FAL from a remote 
host (%SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected).  I looked 
in /var/log/messages, and found dnetd could not start fal because it 
was looking in /usr/local/sbin, but fal is in /usr/sbin now.  Short of 
editing /etc/dnetd.conf to prefix every program name with /usr/sbin, 
what can I do?

Larry Baker
US Geological Survey
650-329-5608
ba...@us...

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] naive LAT question regarding speed

[Mats M. <mat...@te...>]

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:12:08 +0100
Patrick Caulfield <pa...@ty...> wrote:

> Zube wrote:
> > On Fri Aug 19 07:45:19 AM, Patrick Caulfield wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Could you tell me more about what you are doing? I know that
> >"reverse" >LAT is slower by about a factor of 1.8 or so but I've
> >never heard of >those sort of orders of magnitude. Normal terminal
> >access, in my >experience, is limited by the speed of the serial line
> >between the >terminal and the server.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks for getting back to me.
> > 
> > The setup is a few dumb terminals (and a couple of scanners attached
> > to dumb terminals) hooked to a DecServer 200.  The logins on the
> > Debian Thinkpad machine automatically rlogin to another machine
> > where the programs are run, but I don't believe the problem is
> > between the Thinkpad and the remote machine.
> > 
> > For example, when I do:
> > 
> > c linux 
> > 
> > from the local prompt, I immediately get a login prompt.  But for a
> > three character account, say abc, typed immediately after the prompt
> > appears, the sequence appears this way:
> > 
> > ab <delay> c
> > 
> > Another example:  There is a program that is "downloaded" to a
> > scanner attached to a dumb terminal.  The code is displayed on the
> > screen as it is processed by the scanner.  When the DECStation was
> > in place, the code scrolled by at a regular, if unimpressive, clip;
> > now, it scrolls at the same unimpressive clip for a few lines and
> > then stops for several seconds, then continues for a few more lines
> > and stops, etc.  It all works, but the hangs make it tough to work
> > with.
> > 
> > Perhaps I will try to put Debian + the lat software on a different
> > machine. I've seen stranger things occur with Thinkpads; it was just
> > a very convenient choice.
> > 
> 
> Hmm, that sounds very odd. I use LAT regularly and have never seen
> that sort of slowdown and I run my connections at speeds faster than a
> DS200 can even dream of !
> 
> Check that the DS200 has the latest firmware installed, I did have
> some problems with old versions. Unfortunately my DS200 has now died
> and I can't remember the version I was using - I do still have the
> download image though :-)
> 
> It might also be worth checking that there isn't execssive packet loss
> - I suspect my code that copes with that may not be optimal. It would
> be interesting to see if similar problems occur on another Linux
> machine.

I have seen almost this kind of problems but using ordinary TCP/IP
between a few machines.

It turned out that I was using an old ethernet bridge to connect my
first tp-only ethernet interface to the bnc ethernet I was using at that
time, and when using fast enough ethernet cards in both ends (some tulip
21143 motherboard interface on the tp only machine, and 3c509 on the
other machine) the ethernet bridge didn't handle direction switching
fast enough, so the first packet arrived correctly but then either the
ack or the next packet (don't remember which or if both happened) didn't
get thorug correctly so there were a timeout delay each time i sent more
than a MTU of data. So, telnet and using ordinary commands worked fine
but for exampe ftp took ages. When transfering data between the machine
with tp interface and a machine with an older smc/wd8003 8-bit isa
interface everything worked fine, and all other directions of data
worked fine also. After replacing the old ethernet bridge with tp+bcn
transcievers and the crossed tp cable with a new tp+bnc hub all problems
disappeared.

Perhaps something similar happends. I don't have that much knowledge of
the LAT ptorocol, if LAT sends more than one packet + ack for each typed
character it could be this kind of problem.

I don't know if there is a way to delay every outgoing ethernet packet
in linux. If there is, try that.

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] naive LAT question regarding speed

[Patrick C. <pa...@ty...>]

Zube wrote:
> On Fri Aug 19 07:45:19 AM, Patrick Caulfield wrote:
> 
> 
>>Could you tell me more about what you are doing? I know that "reverse" 
>>LAT is slower by about a factor of 1.8 or so but I've never heard of 
>>those sort of orders of magnitude. Normal terminal access, in my 
>>experience, is limited by the speed of the serial line between the 
>>terminal and the server.
> 
> 
> Thanks for getting back to me.
> 
> The setup is a few dumb terminals (and a couple of scanners attached to
> dumb terminals) hooked to a DecServer 200.  The logins on the Debian
> Thinkpad machine automatically rlogin to another machine where the programs
> are run, but I don't believe the problem is between the Thinkpad and
> the remote machine.
> 
> For example, when I do:
> 
> c linux 
> 
> from the local prompt, I immediately get a login prompt.  But for a three
> character account, say abc, typed immediately after the prompt appears, 
> the sequence appears this way:
> 
> ab <delay> c
> 
> Another example:  There is a program that is "downloaded" to a scanner
> attached to a dumb terminal.  The code is displayed on the screen as
> it is processed by the scanner.  When the DECStation was in place, the
> code scrolled by at a regular, if unimpressive, clip; now, it scrolls
> at the same unimpressive clip for a few lines and then stops for several
> seconds, then continues for a few more lines and stops, etc.  It all works,
> but the hangs make it tough to work with.
> 
> Perhaps I will try to put Debian + the lat software on a different machine.
> I've seen stranger things occur with Thinkpads; it was just a very 
> convenient choice.
> 

Hmm, that sounds very odd. I use LAT regularly and have never seen that 
sort of slowdown and I run my connections at speeds faster than a DS200 
can even dream of !

Check that the DS200 has the latest firmware installed, I did have some 
problems with old versions. Unfortunately my DS200 has now died and I 
can't remember the version I was using - I do still have the download 
image though :-)

It might also be worth checking that there isn't execssive packet loss - 
I suspect my code that copes with that may not be optimal. It would be 
interesting to see if similar problems occur on another Linux machine.

Patrick

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] naive LAT question regarding speed

[Zube <Zu...@CS...>]

On Fri Aug 19 07:45:19 AM, Patrick Caulfield wrote:

> 
> Could you tell me more about what you are doing? I know that "reverse" 
> LAT is slower by about a factor of 1.8 or so but I've never heard of 
> those sort of orders of magnitude. Normal terminal access, in my 
> experience, is limited by the speed of the serial line between the 
> terminal and the server.

Thanks for getting back to me.

The setup is a few dumb terminals (and a couple of scanners attached to
dumb terminals) hooked to a DecServer 200.  The logins on the Debian
Thinkpad machine automatically rlogin to another machine where the programs
are run, but I don't believe the problem is between the Thinkpad and
the remote machine.

For example, when I do:

c linux 

from the local prompt, I immediately get a login prompt.  But for a three
character account, say abc, typed immediately after the prompt appears, 
the sequence appears this way:

ab <delay> c

Another example:  There is a program that is "downloaded" to a scanner
attached to a dumb terminal.  The code is displayed on the screen as
it is processed by the scanner.  When the DECStation was in place, the
code scrolled by at a regular, if unimpressive, clip; now, it scrolls
at the same unimpressive clip for a few lines and then stops for several
seconds, then continues for a few more lines and stops, etc.  It all works,
but the hangs make it tough to work with.

Perhaps I will try to put Debian + the lat software on a different machine.
I've seen stranger things occur with Thinkpads; it was just a very 
convenient choice.

Thanks again for any advice.

Cheers,
Zube

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] naive LAT question regarding speed

[Patrick C. <pa...@ty...>]

Zube wrote:
> Thanks much for all the time and effort that went into the DECnet software.
> It is much appreciated.
>   
> The LAT software has recently come in handy when our old DECstation finally
> gave up.  A quick install of Debian on an older IBM Thinkpad, apt-get and
> latcp -s and we had connectivity.  I was most impressed and very grateful.
> 
> Alas, the speed is several times slower than what we were seeing before.
> There's nothing fancy going on, just a few dumb terminals hooked up to
> a DECserver 200.  I've tried different network cards and 10baseT v. 
> 100baseT, but the slowness remains.  The Thinkpad is plenty fast (an 850mhz)
> and is performing no other task.
> 
> Before I dive into it further, might anyone have any suggestions on what
> I might be missing. 
> 

Could you tell me more about what you are doing? I know that "reverse" 
LAT is slower by about a factor of 1.8 or so but I've never heard of 
those sort of orders of magnitude. Normal terminal access, in my 
experience, is limited by the speed of the serial line between the 
terminal and the server.

-- 
patrick

[Linux-decnet-user] naive LAT question regarding speed

[Zube <Zu...@CS...>]

Thanks much for all the time and effort that went into the DECnet software.
It is much appreciated.
  
The LAT software has recently come in handy when our old DECstation finally
gave up.  A quick install of Debian on an older IBM Thinkpad, apt-get and
latcp -s and we had connectivity.  I was most impressed and very grateful.

Alas, the speed is several times slower than what we were seeing before.
There's nothing fancy going on, just a few dumb terminals hooked up to
a DECserver 200.  I've tried different network cards and 10baseT v. 
100baseT, but the slowness remains.  The Thinkpad is plenty fast (an 850mhz)
and is performing no other task.

Before I dive into it further, might anyone have any suggestions on what
I might be missing. 

Thanks very much for any help.

Cheers,
Zube

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] librms + vax floating point

[Patrick C. <pa...@ty...>]

ada...@br... wrote:
> wow, thanks larry
> 
> in the meantime, i found the following function in the gcc sources (thats
> not something i ever thought i'd say), i have no idea if it works and it
> looks like i will have to hack it around and havnt tried ti yet....it looks
> a bit crazy so it might just work, but i'll wait to se what you have....i'd
> definitely say it would be a useful part of librms.
> 

Let me know which routine(s) work for you and i'll be happy to include one in
librms.

patrick

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] librms + vax floating point

[Stanley F. Q. <sys...@st...>]

There are lots of different float formats on VMS systems.  The VAX 
platform can only do VAX floats.  The Itanium platform can only do 
IEEE floats.  The Alpha platform swings both ways.  ;-)

The smallest VAX float is F float, which is 32 bits.  If that's the 
one you're trying to read, I have a bit-swizzle technique for 
converting them.

The VMS FAQ:

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/openvms_faq.html?jumpid=/go/openvms/faq

recommends seeing:

http://www.hhs.dk/anonymous/pub/vms/collection/ieee.zip

The FAQ discusses the floating-point formats in detail, section 
14.10.  There's enough details to make conversion routines.

--Stan Quayle
Quayle Consulting Inc.

----------
Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363
8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA
stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com
"OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] librms + vax floating point

[Mats M. <mat...@te...>]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:39:19 +0100
ada...@br... wrote:

> im successfully using librms to open and read a binary file on a vax
> system.
> 
> using '#pragma pack (1)' i was able to get my struct to be the same
> size as the record length of the file, and can read most of the data
> successfully, including strings and ints. But floats are a problem,
> they are totally wrong.  I figure vax maybe stores floats in a
> different format from my i386 pc, and have found various references to
> things like
> 
> vax 'D-Float' format
> and
> TARGET_FLOAT_FORMAT VAX_FLOAT_FORMAT  (but i think that is for cros
> compiling).

A small hint is that there is that if I recall correct there isn't just
one float format on VAX, there is in fact several float formats. A hint
is to look for some information about vax assembler, that is probably a
good place to find information about floats.

The last resort is to write a file with "known data" like 0, 1, 2, 0.5
e.t.c and have a look at the floats shown as binary data. Not really the
best solution but a last resort.

I'm not sure but I remember something like that floats can be 80 or 64
bits wide and can also be with large precition or can handle large
exponents, atleast the smaller 64bit floats, perhaps the 80bit float
handles max precition and max exponent size at the same time and
conversion takes place when reading/writing to/from memory from/to
registers or something like that. I'm not even sure that it's 64 and 80
bits, but this should be some kind of starter for you to try your google
skills.

If everything else fails I might have some papers about vax assembler
from school but they are storend "below and behind everything else" so
if I even have them it would take a good amout of time to find them.

Re: Re: [Linux-decnet-user] librms + vax floating point

[<ada...@br...>]

wow, thanks larry

in the meantime, i found the following function in the gcc sources (thats
not something i ever thought i'd say), i have no idea if it works and it
looks like i will have to hack it around and havnt tried ti yet....it looks
a bit crazy so it might just work, but i'll wait to se what you have....i'd
definitely say it would be a useful part of librms.

:o)

cheers

Adam

static void
decode_vax_f (const struct real_format *fmt ATTRIBUTE_UNUSED,
              REAL_VALUE_TYPE *r, const long *buf)
{
  unsigned long image = buf[0] & 0xffffffff;
  int exp = (image >> 7) & 0xff;

  memset (r, 0, sizeof (*r));

  if (exp != 0)
    {
      r->cl = rvc_normal;
      r->sign = (image >> 15) & 1;
      SET_REAL_EXP (r, exp - 128);

      image = ((image & 0x7f) << 16) | ((image >> 16) & 0xffff);
      r->sig[SIGSZ-1] = (image << (HOST_BITS_PER_LONG - 24)) | SIG_MSB;
    }
}


Larry Baker <lar...@st...> on 11/08/2005 08:01:59


To:         Adam R Pigg/Spent Fuel/Sellafield/BNFL@BNFL
cc:         Baker Larry <ba...@us...>

Fax to:
Subject:    Re: [Linux-decnet-user] librms + vax floating point


Adam,

I have a C library to read/write all VAX data formats.  I'll send it
to you when I get to work tomorrow.  If you recommend, I'll send it
to be a part of the linux-decnet distribution.

On Aug 10, 2005, at 6:39 AM, ada...@br... wrote:


>
> Hi
>
> im successfully using librms to open and read a binary file on a vax
> system.
>
> using '#pragma pack (1)' i was able to get my struct to be the same
> size as
> the record length of the file, and can read most of the data
> successfully,
> including strings and ints. But floats are a problem, they are totally
> wrong.  I figure vax maybe stores floats in a different format from
> my i386
> pc, and have found various references to things like
>
> vax 'D-Float' format
> and
> TARGET_FLOAT_FORMAT VAX_FLOAT_FORMAT  (but i think that is for cros
> compiling).
>
> Does anyone know how to manipuilate/read floats from a vax binary
> file?
>
> Cheers
>
> Adam
>
>
>
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>

Larry Baker
US Geological Survey
650-329-5608
ba...@us...




Larry Baker
lar...@st...




<Attachment C.htm has been removed from this reply>



The information contained in this email may be commercially sensitive and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not a named recipient, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. You must not disclose it to any other person, copy or distribute it or use it for any purpose.

[Linux-decnet-user] librms + vax floating point

[<ada...@br...>]

Hi

im successfully using librms to open and read a binary file on a vax
system.

using '#pragma pack (1)' i was able to get my struct to be the same size as
the record length of the file, and can read most of the data successfully,
including strings and ints. But floats are a problem, they are totally
wrong.  I figure vax maybe stores floats in a different format from my i386
pc, and have found various references to things like

vax 'D-Float' format
and
TARGET_FLOAT_FORMAT VAX_FLOAT_FORMAT  (but i think that is for cros compiling).

Does anyone know how to manipuilate/read floats from a vax binary file?

Cheers

Adam



The information contained in this email may be commercially sensitive and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not a named recipient, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. You must not disclose it to any other person, copy or distribute it or use it for any purpose.