linux-decnet-user — Discussion for users of DECnet on Linux

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[Rob D. <rob...@in...>]

> It's a professional job to attach new taps to thickwire ethernet, but you
> could connect an 8 port switch to an existing tap using the AUI interface
> on the switch (though cheap switches don't have an AUI interface nowadays).

... and also you'd need to find someone that still stocked the H4000
taps !

You can pick up a DELNI (DEC 8-port AUI 'hub' with AUI uplink to tap
transceiver) for about $25 second-hand. 

e.g. I just found this through Yahoo! -
http://www.uscomputerexchange.com/digital3.htm
They even have a DESTA available - DEC AUI to thinwire adapter.

Hook this up to an existing tap, and move the existing connection onto
the DELNI. You can then attach an AUI-to-UTP adapter to the uplink port
so you can wire it into your UTP switch port (note: I said switch, not
hub ... you still need to make sure that you don't cascade too many hubs
... if it's a root hub, you're ok, otherwise not - put a switch or a
bridge in and hook the DELNI to that).

Rob.

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[Paul K. <pk...@eq...>]

>>>>> "Rob" == Rob Davies <rob...@in...> writes:

 Rob> Black Box also do AUI-to-Thinwire converters ...

That's one approach.  There are plenty of thinwire transceivers; I
have one at home made by some random asian company.

Another approach: use a conventional "fat coax" transceiver, then
connect the fat coax to the thin coax.  Just connect them together,
with a convertor connector.

Some people get this wrong.  I remember an amazing article (in the
magazine "RSTS Professional", now long gone) that showed a splice
between fat and thin coax using the thinwire T connector, WITH a
terminator at that point!!!  This is seriously wrong, as any EE
student will recognize.

Electrically, thick and thin coax are equivalent; you can mix them at
will.  About the only restriction will be that you should use the thin
coax distance limit if you do so, not the fat coax limit.  But always
remember that terminators go ONLY at the end, never in the middle...

     paul

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[Paul S. <psh...@st...>]

At 14:38 31/10/01 +0000, Steve Whitehouse wrote:

>You should be able to find some thick to thin ethernet convertors if you
>look through second hand computer part suppliers. I doubt you'd find any
>being sold new, certainly that kind of thing used to be quite expensive
>I think.

This guy has a thick Ethernet setup. His ethernet cable will have some
transceivers tapped into it, and he needs to connect his newer computers to
one of these using a transceiver cable. PC cards supporting an external
transceiver interface are rare nowadays, but many old cards had them as
standard, including the original Novell NE2000. Most people will have one
in the junk box - I've got dozens (but I don't live in Bosnia). It's a 15
pin connector similar to a PC joystick port.

It's a professional job to attach new taps to thickwire ethernet, but you
could connect an 8 port switch to an existing tap using the AUI interface
on the switch (though cheap switches don't have an AUI interface nowadays).

It's possible to get adaptors which allow you to unscrew the terminator
from one end of the thick cable and attach a BNC connector. These were
never part of the official ethernet spec but work well enough (though the
whole point of thick ethernet was reliability - users couldn't disconnect
the segment terminator, and you could drive a tank over the cable itself).
Tandy used to sell them, and they may still be in the Radiospares catalogue
- usually they're marketed as RF adaptors rather than Ethernet adaptors,
but if they're 50 ohm impedence with the correct connectors they should work.

Alternatively, the old kit could all be cabled up with 10baseT cabling
using 10baseT transceivers. These are very small and plug straight into the
AUI socket without a transceiver cable. They used to be quite cheap (<US$50
each) but are less common now and may cost more. Again, I have 2 in the
junk box!

Electrically thickwire ethernet is exactly the same as 10base2 ethernet,
except that the cable has much lower signal loss so each segment can be
much longer (1Km? 500m? I can't remember without looking it up).

HTH, Paul


Paul Sherwin Consulting     22 Monmouth Road, Oxford OX1 4TD, UK
Phone  +44 (0)1865 721438   http://www.psherwin.strayduck.com
Mobile +44 (0)7931 578334   mailto:psh...@st...
Pager  +44 (0)7666 797228 

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[Reinhard K. <rka...@fr...>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 02:38:45PM +0000, Steven Whitehouse wrote
> > 3. I use suse linux 7.0 and kernel 2.2.14 it is prity hard (beacause my
> > home is in bosnia ) to order new
> > version of suse. Is DECnet work on my version of suse. On which
> > distribution DECnet is work 100 %, how i can find that distribution ?
> > 
> I'd suggest using the latest 2.4 -ac kernel for DECnet support as that has
> the very latest code in it. Linus' kernels are not far behind though. I don't
> think it matters greatly what distribution you use. I suggest that you get
> a new set of DECnet userland tools from sourceforge whichever distribution
> you choose (although I think Debian should be right uptodate if you use
> the unstable version).

Well, it's not only the kernel, that has to be changed, he has to look into
linux/Documentation/Changelog for new utilities such as mount etc...

Reinhard

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[Rob D. <rob...@in...>]

> Situation is as follow:
> We have old mashines:
> Iskra Delta 4850 / VAX/VMS v4.2 (ex yugoslav version on Digital VAX)
> Digital VAX 6000-310 / VAX/VMS v5.4-2
> Digital micro VAX 3100/310 /VAX/VMS v5.4-2
> Terminal servers Digital DSRVF-B ( 2 peaces for users)

These are DECserver300s ... LAT only I believe.

You might want to consider upgrading these to a newer type of terminal
server that supports both LAT (for connecting to the VAX) and telnet ...
something like a Cisco 2509 or 2511 for instance. That way you could
wire up remote access to the console ports of the VAXes using
reverse-telnet through the terminal server .... no more VT terminal
needed!

> all this equipment is networked in some old kind of network
> DECnet protokol, but there is no normal Eth. card (exept micro VAX)
> I think they call this netowk somthing like "fat" Ethernet. In tehnical
> manual for micro VAX is information about that computer have port for Thin
> Ehernet (like BNC port for 10Mbps networks). Also terminal servers have
> ethernet ports like that. (i do not have any addtional old network cables
> ecept used cables). 

Do the VAXes have a 15-pin D-type connection on the back with a label
icon that looks like '#' ? ... that's the Ethernet AUI port ... you
would connect this with a 15-pin cable with slide-lock connectors on the
end to something like a DELNI 'hub' to connect the devices together ...
you can also use an AUI-to-UTP converter module to be able to cable it
to your UTP network.

> There is no any version of MiniNET on that VAX-es. I can make serial
> connection with speed 1200 bps :(. But problem is there
> is no kermit on that mashines and there is no C compiler on that mashines,
> so i can not transfer source of cermit, and recompile it, and use kermit
> for binary transfer. I can only connect acros serial port and receive/send
> ASCII files. Ofcourse i don't have uuencode/decode. But dabases have almoust
> 1GB of data. How i can transfer that onto slow serial port !!!
> 
> Several days i try find on internet way how to connect those dinosaurs 
> on normal network for exchaning of files. 
> 
> Old IS is in function now, but maintenance is very expensive and one day
> that system must die. 
> 
> My idea is : put one linux server into room with that old mashines with
> instaled DECnet for linux, which will be used for commucations between
> old mashines and rest of world :)
> But the questions are :
> 
> 1. Can i install normal 10Mbps network card with BNC conector on linux
> server and with coax cable connect to micro VAX (with terminators
> ofcourse), install DECnet onto linux an be able to send and recive files ?
> between micro VAX and linux server.

Yes.

> 2. Or i need to find ( i do not now how and where ?) network interface
> card for that old Ethernet and install that card into linux mashine and
> driver for that card, and connect on to exist DECnet network, and send
> and recive files.

It's the same type of Ethernet ... it's just using AUI connectors
instead of UTP ... you need AUI-to-UTP converters for each interface.

Try http://www.blackbox.co.uk/ and search the catalog for LE2041A

I think the UK office of Black Box is probably the closest to you ...
they may be able to ship directly to you.

Black Box also do AUI-to-Thinwire converters ...

You may be able to find a local network equipment supplier that can get
you the converters, once you explain to them what you are looking for
... they should be readily available in most places.

> 3. I use suse linux 7.0 and kernel 2.2.14 it is prity hard (beacause my
> home is in bosnia ) to order new
> version of suse. Is DECnet work on my version of suse. On which
> distribution DECnet is work 100 %, how i can find that distribution ?

You can download new versions of the kernel from the Internet ... that
might solve your problem, as you would be able to upgrade to the 2.4
kernel without having to try ordering anything ...

> 4. Is that all what i need. Is that good idea at all ? Or i need somthing
> more and diferent ?

That should work.

> 5. My i use that linux mashine like some kind of gateway, for example if i
> need some users to have terminal session onto old VAX-es. My i use TELNET
> service to connect ont linux and from linux I_DO_NOT_KNOW_WHAT to connect
> ont VAX logging and work ? My i create for example VAX user on linux and
> write small script for connecting onto VAX/VMS ?

You could use LAT or sethost to connect to the VAX. I think you'll need
LAT anyway, as the terminal servers only talk LAT. I guess it depends on
what you use the terminal servers for ...

You can use DECnet copy to transfer the files you need from the VAX to
the Linux box.

> 6. I am able to write CON scripts on VAX sides, and shell scripts on
> linux side for transparent sihronization of folders VAX-linux. Do you
> think it is good idea ? Or i can find some exting tools for that ?
> 
> Thats all for first calling. Thanx to all good poeples who reads this
> message and who are ready for answer :)
> 
> regards,
> 
> Sasa Buric
> 

Regards,

Rob.

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[Steven W. <st...@gw...>]

Hi,

> 
> Regards to all, first thing: sorry about my bad english
> well i have one prity nice duty to make connection between 
> old vax-es and new IS:)
> 
> Situation is as follow:
> We have old mashines:
> Iskra Delta 4850 / VAX/VMS v4.2 (ex yugoslav version on Digital VAX)
> Digital VAX 6000-310 / VAX/VMS v5.4-2
> Digital micro VAX 3100/310 /VAX/VMS v5.4-2
> Terminal servers Digital DSRVF-B ( 2 peaces for users)
> 
> all this equipment is networked in some old kind of network
> DECnet protokol, but there is no normal Eth. card (exept micro VAX)
> I think they call this netowk somthing like "fat" Ethernet. In tehnical

Do you mean think ethernet ? 10base5 I think. Does it have a D connector
on the machine which connects to a "tap" attached to a think piece of
co-ax cable ? If so thats probably what you have.

> manual for micro VAX is information about that computer have port for Thin
> Ehernet (like BNC port for 10Mbps networks). Also terminal servers have
> ethernet ports like that. (i do not have any addtional old network cables
> ecept used cables). 
> There is no any version of MiniNET on that VAX-es. I can make serial
> connection with speed 1200 bps :(. But problem is there
> is no kermit on that mashines and there is no C compiler on that mashines,
> so i can not transfer source of cermit, and recompile it, and use kermit
> for binary transfer. I can only connect acros serial port and receive/send
> ASCI
> files. Ofcourse i don't have uuencode/decode. But dabases have almoust 1GB
> of data. How i can transfer that onto slow serial port !!!
> 
> Several days i try find on internet way how to connect those dinosaurs 
> on normal network for exchaning of files. 
> 
> Old IS is in function now, but maintenance is very expensive and one day
> that system must die. 
> 
> My idea is : put one linux server into room with that old mashines with
> instaled DECnet for linux, which will be used for commucations between
> old mashines and rest of world :)
> But the questions are :
> 
> 1. Can i install normal 10Mbps network card with BNC conector on linux
> server and with coax cable connect to micro VAX (with terminators
> ofcourse), install DECnet onto linux an be able to send and recive files ?
> between micro VAX and linux server.
> 
Yes. Thats why I started working on the project originally to solve exactly
that problem.

> 2. Or i need to find ( i do not now how and where ?) network interface
> card for that old Ethernet and install that card into linux mashine and
> driver for that card, and connect on to exist DECnet network, and send
> and recive files.
> 
You should be able to find some thick to thin ethernet convertors if you
look through second hand computer part suppliers. I doubt you'd find any
being sold new, certainly that kind of thing used to be quite expensive
I think.

> 3. I use suse linux 7.0 and kernel 2.2.14 it is prity hard (beacause my
> home is in bosnia ) to order new
> version of suse. Is DECnet work on my version of suse. On which
> distribution DECnet is work 100 %, how i can find that distribution ?
> 
I'd suggest using the latest 2.4 -ac kernel for DECnet support as that has
the very latest code in it. Linus' kernels are not far behind though. I don't
think it matters greatly what distribution you use. I suggest that you get
a new set of DECnet userland tools from sourceforge whichever distribution
you choose (although I think Debian should be right uptodate if you use
the unstable version).

> 4. Is that all what i need. Is that good idea at all ? Or i need somthing
> more and diferent ?
> 
Your proposed setup should work fine.

> 5. My i use that linux mashine like some kind of gateway, for example if i
> need some users to have terminal session onto old VAX-es. My i use TELNET
> service to connect ont linux and from linux I_DO_NOT_KNOW_WHAT to connect
> ont VAX logging and work ? My i create for example VAX user on linux and
> write small script for connecting onto VAX/VMS ?
> 
Yes, that should work fine. We can't support transparent proxying yet, but
with a few scripts like you suggest, it should be easily possible.

> 6. I am able to write CON scripts on VAX sides, and shell scripts on
> linux side for transparent sihronization of folders VAX-linux. Do you
> think it is good idea ? Or i can find some exting tools for that ?
> 
When DAPfs is working with the latest DECnet source, you could consider that
but for now, I suspect that scripts provide the best solution,

Steve.

[Linux-decnet-user] Well, i think i need help :)

[<sa...@ba...>]

Regards to all, first thing: sorry about my bad english
well i have one prity nice duty to make connection between 
old vax-es and new IS:)

Situation is as follow:
We have old mashines:
Iskra Delta 4850 / VAX/VMS v4.2 (ex yugoslav version on Digital VAX)
Digital VAX 6000-310 / VAX/VMS v5.4-2
Digital micro VAX 3100/310 /VAX/VMS v5.4-2
Terminal servers Digital DSRVF-B ( 2 peaces for users)

all this equipment is networked in some old kind of network
DECnet protokol, but there is no normal Eth. card (exept micro VAX)
I think they call this netowk somthing like "fat" Ethernet. In tehnical
manual for micro VAX is information about that computer have port for Thin
Ehernet (like BNC port for 10Mbps networks). Also terminal servers have
ethernet ports like that. (i do not have any addtional old network cables
ecept used cables). 
There is no any version of MiniNET on that VAX-es. I can make serial
connection with speed 1200 bps :(. But problem is there
is no kermit on that mashines and there is no C compiler on that mashines,
so i can not transfer source of cermit, and recompile it, and use kermit
for binary transfer. I can only connect acros serial port and receive/send
ASCI
files. Ofcourse i don't have uuencode/decode. But dabases have almoust 1GB
of data. How i can transfer that onto slow serial port !!!

Several days i try find on internet way how to connect those dinosaurs 
on normal network for exchaning of files. 

Old IS is in function now, but maintenance is very expensive and one day
that system must die. 

My idea is : put one linux server into room with that old mashines with
instaled DECnet for linux, which will be used for commucations between
old mashines and rest of world :)
But the questions are :

1. Can i install normal 10Mbps network card with BNC conector on linux
server and with coax cable connect to micro VAX (with terminators
ofcourse), install DECnet onto linux an be able to send and recive files ?
between micro VAX and linux server.

2. Or i need to find ( i do not now how and where ?) network interface
card for that old Ethernet and install that card into linux mashine and
driver for that card, and connect on to exist DECnet network, and send
and recive files.

3. I use suse linux 7.0 and kernel 2.2.14 it is prity hard (beacause my
home is in bosnia ) to order new
version of suse. Is DECnet work on my version of suse. On which
distribution DECnet is work 100 %, how i can find that distribution ?

4. Is that all what i need. Is that good idea at all ? Or i need somthing
more and diferent ?

5. My i use that linux mashine like some kind of gateway, for example if i
need some users to have terminal session onto old VAX-es. My i use TELNET
service to connect ont linux and from linux I_DO_NOT_KNOW_WHAT to connect
ont VAX logging and work ? My i create for example VAX user on linux and
write small script for connecting onto VAX/VMS ?

6. I am able to write CON scripts on VAX sides, and shell scripts on
linux side for transparent sihronization of folders VAX-linux. Do you
think it is good idea ? Or i can find some exting tools for that ?

Thats all for first calling. Thanx to all good poeples who reads this
message and who are ready for answer :)

regards,

Sasa Buric

Re: [Linux-decnet-user] I am looking for software for making Linux box a router...

[Steven W. <st...@gw...>]

Hi,

Using what protocol ? Presumably DECnet ? If so you should be able to make
static routing work with a standard 2.4 kernel and using Alexey Kuznetsov's 
iproute2 tools to configure it. Its very much the same procedure as setting
up an IP based router.

Things are a little exprimental so far as routing goes at the moment so
I'd be very interested in any reports of success/failure that your 
investigations might generate,

Thanks,

Steve.

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any one who can knows of any software to make
> Linux box act as a router for a VAX Server.
> 
> Please reply to imm...@ya...
> 
> Immanuel
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-decnet-user mailing list
> Lin...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-decnet-user
> 

[Linux-decnet-user] I am looking for software for making Linux box a router...

[Immanuel R. J <imm...@ya...>]

Hi,

Is there any one who can knows of any software to make
Linux box act as a router for a VAX Server.

Please reply to imm...@ya...

Immanuel

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

[Linux-decnet-user] dnprogs 2.16 released

[Patrick C. <pa...@ty...>]

Quite a few changes this time, many fixing some quite bad bugs in FAL so
probably worth a download if you're seeing troubles here. The Debian "unstable"
packages should be in the archive by the time this mail reaches you.

If you want to use the VMS symbiont I mentioned a few weeks ago then you will
need this version of FAL, it also fixes problems with outgoing X connections
randomly failing.

Here's the changelog for 2.16 since 2.13:

dnprogs (2.16) 

  * Remove pre-increment in FAL so that close-time attributes get
    applied to the right file - and don't crash on the last file.
  * Look at OPEN as well as CLOSE time attributes for SPL, DLT and TEF.
  * fal's directory output now correctly sends the new directory information
    if a double wildcard is used: eg [*]*
  * Fix bug in fal where binary files got corrupted if copied in "record" 
    mode
  * setether now also sets the default interface for 2.4 kernels

dnprogs (2.15) 

  * in librms/parse.cc pass va_list in a wrapper struct so that it works on 
    powerpc systems.
  * add set -e to Makefile so it gives up on error. I never was any good at 
    writing Makefiles.
  * Minor manpage changes.

dnprogs (2.14) 

  * Fixed random failures of dnet_conn caused by uninitialised structure member.
  * Added printf-style variable arg lists to librms rms_t_* functions
  * Made rpm generate sensible arch codes.
  * setether puts the card in "allmulti" mode. Some cards need this to
    collect the hello messages.
  * added -s (show stats) option to dncopy.

patrick