ming-devr — a list for ming developers and those interested in ming's guts

[Ming-dev] How do we feel about releasing 0.4.0 beta 6 soon?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Hi us,

Any known "real broken bits" in CVS at the moment?

Thinking there's been a reasonable amount of change in CVS recently, so
it might not hurt to push out a new beta.

?

(I know my potential-update-to-the-ming function is still outstanding, I
got distracted with something else for a while. Sorry!)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Klaus Rechert wrote:
>> Perhaps it's an "interpretation" thing?
>>
>> They could be meaning the "assumed to be zero" as (badly worded)
>> "assumed to have no change", but somehow it got into the spec as you
>> have it.
> 
> Code it, and if it does the trick it is fine for me... could you also add a 
> testcase please ?

No worries.

Haven't done a test case for Ming before, so guess it's time to learn.

There seem to be plenty of examples in the "test" subdirectory, so it
shouldn't be too hard.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

> 	Klaus


- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Klaus R. <kla...@rz...>]

> Perhaps it's an "interpretation" thing?
>
> They could be meaning the "assumed to be zero" as (badly worded)
> "assumed to have no change", but somehow it got into the spec as you
> have it.

Code it, and if it does the trick it is fine for me... could you also add a 
testcase please ?

	Klaus

Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Klaus Rechert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> But no, SWFText_moveTo() checks for the presence of 0 and then ignores
>> it, so the text ends up like:
>>
>>    First line
>>              Second line
>>
> 
> Have you tried that? If thats the case specs are wrong (which is not a suprise 
> btw...).

Yeah.  Only noticed the problem because it goes wonky like that.  :(

Just now went and retested to be sure, and yep, both the official Adobe
flash player (9.0.115.0) and Gnash (0.8.1 - AGG renderer) go wonky.


> Specs say: "If there is no XOffset specified, the offset is assumed to be 
> zero."  

Perhaps it's an "interpretation" thing?

They could be meaning the "assumed to be zero" as (badly worded)
"assumed to have no change", but somehow it got into the spec as you
have it.

My workaround at the moment is to do this:

  current_ming_scale = Ming_getScale();
  Ming_setScale(1);
  SWFText_moveTo(text_object, 1, 0);
  Ming_setScale(current_ming_scale);

So it moves the pen to one twip of 0.

But it's pretty non-optimal to not be able to get back to 0 itself.  *sigh*

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


> 	Klaus
> 


- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[strk <st...@ke...>]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 10:39:43PM +0100, Klaus Rechert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> > But no, SWFText_moveTo() checks for the presence of 0 and then ignores
> > it, so the text ends up like:
> > 
> >    First line
> >              Second line
> > 
> 
> Have you tried that? If thats the case specs are wrong (which is not a suprise 
> btw...). 
> Specs say: "If there is no XOffset specified, the offset is assumed to be 
> zero."  

What about the offset needs to be a negative number in Justin case, with
zero being exactly what he's getting ?

--strk;

Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Klaus R. <kl...@re...>]

Hi,

> But no, SWFText_moveTo() checks for the presence of 0 and then ignores
> it, so the text ends up like:
> 
>    First line
>              Second line
> 

Have you tried that? If thats the case specs are wrong (which is not a suprise 
btw...). 
Specs say: "If there is no XOffset specified, the offset is assumed to be 
zero."  

	Klaus

Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Klaus Rechert wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> 
> sorry for the late answer.
> 
> The current code is alright. SWF is trying to efficiently encode information. 
> In the Textrecord example:
> 
> SWF_TEXT_HAS_X/Y flag NOT set means an offset of zero and saves 2 bytes per 
> field.

Hmmm, I see what you're saying, but I think it's not working for (at
least) a simple use case. (i.e. when you WANT to move the pen position
to x = 0).

Quick example, let's say I want to create a text object with two lines
of text:

   First line
   Second line

So, I create the font object, then create the text object and assign it
properties (i.e. the font to use, height, color, etc).

Then I add the string "First line" to it.

Now I want to move the pen position down one line and back to the x
origin, so I can add the second string "Second line".

  // Move to the appropriate Y position
  SWFText_moveTo(text_object, 0, scaled_font_size);

But no, SWFText_moveTo() checks for the presence of 0 and then ignores
it, so the text ends up like:

   First line
             Second line

How do I move the pen position back to x of 0?

Not seeing how to do it with the present code base. :(

Can provide exact code having the above problem if you need, as it's a
Real World problem I hit recently. Heh.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

> 	Klaus


- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Klaus R. <kla...@rz...>]

Hi Justin,

sorry for the late answer.

The current code is alright. SWF is trying to efficiently encode information. 
In the Textrecord example:

SWF_TEXT_HAS_X/Y flag NOT set means an offset of zero and saves 2 bytes per 
field.

	Klaus

Am Sonntag 20 Januar 2008 06:44:16 schrieb Justin Clift:
> Hi all,
>
> Have just discovered that with SWFText_moveTo() (which maps to
> SWFText_scaledMoveTo()), trying to set either x or y to 0 leads to that
> value being skipped.
>
> Guessing it was originally intended to allow just one of the
> co-ordinates to be effective, but it seems more like a bug.
>
> It's stopping text pen position from actually being set to zero (on
> purpose) in either dimension, which I need.
>
> *****************
>
> void
> SWFText_scaledMoveTo(SWFText text, int x, int y)
> {
> 	SWFTextRecord textRecord = text->currentRecord;
>
> 	if ( textRecord == NULL || textRecord->string != NULL )
> 		textRecord = SWFText_addTextRecord(text);
>
> 	/* If SWFText_addTextRecord() failed, return early */
> 	if (NULL == textRecord)
> 		return;
>
> 	if ( x != 0 )
> 	{
> 		textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_X;
> 		textRecord->x = x;
> 	}
>
> 	if ( y != 0 )
> 	{
> 		textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_Y;
> 		textRecord->y = y;
> 	}
> }
>
> *****************
>
> My thinking is we should update the function to honour the 0 value,
> document the change, and create two functions allowing people to set
> just one of the X or Y values.
>
> Something like (mostly a cut-n-paste of above):
>
> *****************
>
> int
> SWFText_scaledMoveXTo(SWFText text, int x)
> {
> 	SWFTextRecord textRecord = text->currentRecord;
>
> 	if ( textRecord == NULL || textRecord->string != NULL )
> 		textRecord = SWFText_addTextRecord(text);
>
> 	// If SWFText_addTextRecord() failed, return -1 to indicate this
> 	if (NULL == textRecord)
> 		return -1;
>
> 	textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_X;
> 	textRecord->x = x;
> }
>
>
> int
> SWFText_scaledMoveYTo(SWFText text, int y)
> {
> 	SWFTextRecord textRecord = text->currentRecord;
>
> 	if ( textRecord == NULL || textRecord->string != NULL )
> 		textRecord = SWFText_addTextRecord(text);
>
> 	// If SWFText_addTextRecord() failed, return -1 to indicate this
> 	if (NULL == textRecord)
> 		return -1;
>
> 	textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_Y;
> 	textRecord->y = y;
> }
>
> *****************
>
> Good idea, bad idea, general thoughts?
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift

Re: [Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Justin Clift wrote:
<snip>
> My thinking is we should update the function to honour the 0 value,
> document the change, and create two functions allowing people to set
> just one of the X or Y values.

Haven't heard any objections, so I'll put something in place over the
next day or so. :)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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[Ming-dev] Can we "fix" SWFText_moveTo()/SWFText_scaledMoveTo()?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Hi all,

Have just discovered that with SWFText_moveTo() (which maps to
SWFText_scaledMoveTo()), trying to set either x or y to 0 leads to that
value being skipped.

Guessing it was originally intended to allow just one of the
co-ordinates to be effective, but it seems more like a bug.

It's stopping text pen position from actually being set to zero (on
purpose) in either dimension, which I need.

*****************

void
SWFText_scaledMoveTo(SWFText text, int x, int y)
{
	SWFTextRecord textRecord = text->currentRecord;

	if ( textRecord == NULL || textRecord->string != NULL )
		textRecord = SWFText_addTextRecord(text);

	/* If SWFText_addTextRecord() failed, return early */
	if (NULL == textRecord)
		return;

	if ( x != 0 )
	{
		textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_X;
		textRecord->x = x;
	}

	if ( y != 0 )
	{
		textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_Y;
		textRecord->y = y;
	}
}

*****************

My thinking is we should update the function to honour the 0 value,
document the change, and create two functions allowing people to set
just one of the X or Y values.

Something like (mostly a cut-n-paste of above):

*****************

int
SWFText_scaledMoveXTo(SWFText text, int x)
{
	SWFTextRecord textRecord = text->currentRecord;

	if ( textRecord == NULL || textRecord->string != NULL )
		textRecord = SWFText_addTextRecord(text);

	// If SWFText_addTextRecord() failed, return -1 to indicate this
	if (NULL == textRecord)
		return -1;

	textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_X;
	textRecord->x = x;
}


int
SWFText_scaledMoveYTo(SWFText text, int y)
{
	SWFTextRecord textRecord = text->currentRecord;

	if ( textRecord == NULL || textRecord->string != NULL )
		textRecord = SWFText_addTextRecord(text);

	// If SWFText_addTextRecord() failed, return -1 to indicate this
	if (NULL == textRecord)
		return -1;

	textRecord->flags |= SWF_TEXT_HAS_Y;
	textRecord->y = y;
}

*****************

Good idea, bad idea, general thoughts?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] How often do we backup the wiki?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Stuart Anderson wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Justin Clift wrote:
> 
>> Hi Stuart,
>>
>> Have recently been doing a bunch of work on the wiki (many hours worth),
>> documenting the Ming functions I use as Flame gets converted to Ming.
> 
> Yes, nice job on all of that.
> 
>> Kind of nervous about losing all the work in case the server dies or
>> something.  Is there some kind of automatic backup regime in place for
>> that server? (or can we do a cron'd one or something?)
> 
> The wiki contents are backed up offsite once a day.

Thanks Stuart.  Feeling much more relieved now. :)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] How often do we backup the wiki?

[Stuart A. <and...@ne...>]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Justin Clift wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
>
> Have recently been doing a bunch of work on the wiki (many hours worth),
> documenting the Ming functions I use as Flame gets converted to Ming.

Yes, nice job on all of that.

> Kind of nervous about losing all the work in case the server dies or
> something.  Is there some kind of automatic backup regime in place for
> that server? (or can we do a cron'd one or something?)

The wiki contents are backed up offsite once a day.


                                 Stuart

Stuart R. Anderson                               and...@ne...
Network & Software Engineering                   http://www.netsweng.com/
1024D/37A79149:                                  0791 D3B8 9A4C 2CDC A31F
                                                  BD03 0A62 E534 37A7 9149

[Ming-dev] How often do we backup the wiki?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Hi Stuart,

Have recently been doing a bunch of work on the wiki (many hours worth),
documenting the Ming functions I use as Flame gets converted to Ming.

Kind of nervous about losing all the work in case the server dies or
something.  Is there some kind of automatic backup regime in place for
that server? (or can we do a cron'd one or something?)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] destroySWFBitmap() endlessly recursive?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Justin Clift wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Just noticed the definition of destroySWFBitmap() in bitmap.c is:
> 
> void destroySWFBitmap(SWFBitmap bitmap)
> {
> 	// this will acall bitmap->dtor;
> 	destroySWFBitmap((SWFBlock) bitmap);
> }

Ugh, ignore that.

Stupid cut-n-paste error on my behalf. :(

It really calls destroySWFBlock().

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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[Ming-dev] destroySWFBitmap() endlessly recursive?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Hi all,

Just noticed the definition of destroySWFBitmap() in bitmap.c is:

void destroySWFBitmap(SWFBitmap bitmap)
{
	// this will acall bitmap->dtor;
	destroySWFBitmap((SWFBlock) bitmap);
}

Is there something special going on here, or will call itself endlessly?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Do we need a destroy function for SWFDisplayItem?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Klaus Rechert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> DisplayItems are not created by users and therefore _must_ not be freed by 
> users!
> 
> 	Klaus

Oh. I think I'm showing my ignorance again. :(

My understanding has been that a SWFDisplayItem is created when a user
calls SWFMovie_add(), and it's this SWFDisplayItem object that needs to
be manipulated.

i.e.

         // Add the square to the movie (at 0,0)
         square_display_item = SWFMovie_add(test_movie, (SWFBlock)
square_definition);

         // Move to 100, 100
         SWFDisplayItem_moveTo(square_display_item, 100.00, 100.0);

         // Progressively move the square down and to the right
         for (i = 0; i <= 50; i++)
         {
                 SWFMovie_nextFrame(test_movie);
                 SWFDisplayItem_move(square_display_item, 2, 2);
         }

That example (recently written) is from the wiki page at:

  http://www.libming.net/moin.cgi/SWFDisplayItem_move

Where am I thinking wrong, and should that wiki page be adjusted too?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Do we need a destroy function for SWFDisplayItem?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Justin Clift wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Just writing up some example code for the functions on the wiki.
> 
> Noticed we don't have a destroy() type function for SWFDisplayItem,
> though we do for most other objects.

Just found destroySWFDisplayItem() and destroySWFDisplayList() in
src/blocks/displaylist.c

Looks like they're not in ming.h.

Should either or both of these be public functions, in ming.h?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Do we need a destroy function for SWFDisplayItem?

[Klaus R. <kla...@rz...>]

Hi,

DisplayItems are not created by users and therefore _must_ not be freed by 
users!

	Klaus

Am Donnerstag 17 Januar 2008 14:27:55 schrieb Justin Clift:
> Hi all,
>
> Just writing up some example code for the functions on the wiki.
>
> Noticed we don't have a destroy() type function for SWFDisplayItem,
> though we do for most other objects.
>
> i.e. destroySWFInput(), destroySWFBitmap(), destroySWFShape(),
> destroySWFMovie()
>
> Anyone know if this is because it's not needed, or one just hasn't been
> written yet?
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift

[Ming-dev] Do we need a destroy function for SWFDisplayItem?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Hi all,

Just writing up some example code for the functions on the wiki.

Noticed we don't have a destroy() type function for SWFDisplayItem,
though we do for most other objects.

i.e. destroySWFInput(), destroySWFBitmap(), destroySWFShape(),
destroySWFMovie()

Anyone know if this is because it's not needed, or one just hasn't been
written yet?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

- --
The Flame Project - Open Source GUI for animated SVG & Flash
http://www.flameproject.org

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Re: [Ming-dev] Updated Copyright notice?

[Patrice D. <per...@fr...>]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 10:49:48AM +0100, Klaus Rechert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> sorry but i don't see the point here. 
> 
> A lot of very huge OS projects, like linux-kernel, live very well without 
> assigning copyrights to a single entity. 

It is not an issue as long as you don't intend to pursue copyright
infringements.

> On the practical side, i think it is almost impossible to change this now for 
> ming (find all authors and get them to sign a licence). You not only have to 
> find people which are attributed in the license header, you need to find all 
> people with significant contribution (in copyright terms) to a single file. 

Indeed.

> Also having new contributers to sign a license is not very helpful finding 
> help out there....

It helps stopping the copyright fragmentation (if it is a pursued goal).

--
Pat

Re: [Ming-dev] Updated Copyright notice?

[Klaus R. <kla...@rz...>]

Hi,

sorry but i don't see the point here. 

A lot of very huge OS projects, like linux-kernel, live very well without 
assigning copyrights to a single entity. 

On the practical side, i think it is almost impossible to change this now for 
ming (find all authors and get them to sign a licence). You not only have to 
find people which are attributed in the license header, you need to find all 
people with significant contribution (in copyright terms) to a single file. 
Also having new contributers to sign a license is not very helpful finding 
help out there....

    Klaus

Re: [Ming-dev] Updated Copyright notice?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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strk wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 12:27:48PM +1300, Douglas Bagnall wrote:
> 
>> It would be nice if they did, but in the not unlikely event that some
>> developers don't want to (or can't be found), then you can't do it. All
>> you will achieve is a boring flame war and the alienation of some
>> contributors.
> 
> So far I didn't hear any complain by any developer.
> The only really time consuming task here would be editing a list
> of all developers to submit a copyright assignment request.
> 
>> So I would let it rest. There *are* better uses of your time.
> 
> That's exactly what license infringing parties would think....
> 
> Developers would better use their time to develop, while and legal
> offices of no-profit foundations would be happy to use theirs
> to fight in courts.

Hmmm.

Is it a valid thought, that we might want to get all new (from now?)
contributors to assign all their contributions to Whichever Entity We
End Up Choosing?

So that we don't keep on growing the list of people we'd have to
retro-actively contact and get agreement from.

I guess we need to decide if "longer term" we want to have things
attributed to One Entity, and if we do decide to do that, we should
think about how to get there (efficiently). :)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

> --strk;


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Re: [Ming-dev] Updated Copyright notice?

[strk <st...@ke...>]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 12:27:48PM +1300, Douglas Bagnall wrote:

> It would be nice if they did, but in the not unlikely event that some
> developers don't want to (or can't be found), then you can't do it. All
> you will achieve is a boring flame war and the alienation of some
> contributors.

So far I didn't hear any complain by any developer.
The only really time consuming task here would be editing a list
of all developers to submit a copyright assignment request.

> So I would let it rest. There *are* better uses of your time.

That's exactly what license infringing parties would think....

Developers would better use their time to develop, while and legal
offices of no-profit foundations would be happy to use theirs
to fight in courts.

--strk;

Re: [Ming-dev] Updated Copyright notice?

[Patrice D. <per...@fr...>]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 12:27:48PM +1300, Douglas Bagnall wrote:
> >From an outsider's perspective:
> 
> 
> Yes. Another consideration is that there are 200 or so copyright laws in
> the world, and they all work differently. In New Zealand, for example,
> copyright automatically goes to the author, and the existence or
> otherwise of copyright notices doesn't mean much.

That's not an issue, since there is the Bern convention. The example you
cite is not a real specificity since (unless I am wrong) it is in the
Bern convention (copyright is automatically set to the author). Overall
differences in law is not an issue here, since it is the work of the
court to translate the license in local terms in accordance to the Bern
convention.

> > I personally think that it would be nice if everybody agreed to transfer
> > to the FSF, and the FSF agreed to own the package.
> > 
> 
> It would be nice if they did, but in the not unlikely event that some
> developers don't want to (or can't be found), then you can't do it. All
> you will achieve is a boring flame war and the alienation of some
> contributors.

Not necessarily, it can't be an obligation. Contributors can say yes or
no there doesn't need to be flames.

> And if you do do it, what is actually gained? Nothing. The code is
> available as before.

The code is available, but you are misunderstanding the issue. The code
is not in the public domain, so we can assume that the authors intention
isn't only to have the code available, but also to have the license
honored. That may only happen if the authors can sue those who infringe
the license. And this can only happen if all the authors take the action
together. This can be very complicated in practice, so transfering
copyright to a single copyright holder may be convenient to be sure that
there is a possibility to defend the license in court.

> So I would let it rest. There *are* better uses of your time.

Although the current state of affair may be that it will be very hard to 
defend the license I agree that contacting all the authors of ming can
be a very time consuming task. Not to mention that some may not want to
assign their copyright (and its a perfectly valid choice).

--
Pat

Re: [Ming-dev] Updated Copyright notice?

[Justin C. <ju...@po...>]

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Douglas Bagnall wrote:
<snip>
> And if you do do it, what is actually gained? Nothing. The code is
> available as before.
> 
> So I would let it rest. There *are* better uses of your time.

Well put guys, kind of inclined to agree.

Just wanted to "neaten things up" a bit, as it looks like a Dogs
Breakfast in there.  But not really into spending a zillion hours on
something of minimal benefit. Heh. ;->

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

> thanks,
> 
> douglas

<snip>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft

"This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft".

Kind of ironic.  It would be funny if Adobe sponsors SF.net at some
point then we can actually claim that Adobe have been helping us. ;->

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
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