Re: [Bluemusic-users] Blue synthbuilder

[Peiman K. <pei...@ao...>]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for the new release so fast.

Thank you very much for taking your time to answer my questions about =20
you piece,Your answer about your aesthetic concerns has clarified my =20
thoughts. I agree that notation in contemporary music can be =20
misleading as in many cases (e.g. Xenakis, Murail, Grisey, =20
Ferneyhough) it does not represent the music but a set of =20
prescriptive rules for the performers. That is why some contemporary =20
music is perhaps better understood when heard acousmatically and =20
without reference to the score. On the other hand I think by looking =20
at a line of code (e.g. csound) we do not gain more knowledge of the =20
musical construct than we would by studying a Stockhausen score (?). =20
That is not to say that using code for composition is a negative =20
thing at all; as you mentioned, sounds must be considered regardless =20
of the actual physical means with which they were produced (and =20
organized) and that it is the end result (sonic trace) that matters.

As I mentioned before I can hear the precision with which you have =20
produced and organized every detail in "etude" but mostly what =20
excites me about the piece is its sonic richness and spatial depth =20
which one does not hear in a lot of computer music pieces. I use the =20
term "computer music" as opposed to "electroacoustic music" . I think =20
what you mentioned about having precise control over parameters of =20
the music also explains the aesthetic  difference between computer =20
music and electroacoustic music (although both use computers for =20
creating the music!). In computer music one is much more concerned =20
with control of pre-conceptualized musical parameters, be it time, =20
pitch or spectral makeup...

Lastly I would like to say that one of the reasons why Blue is a =20
great program (besides what you mentioned in your replay) is because =20
it does not impose an aesthetic attitude on the user. It can be used =20
to experiment with sound design in many different ways. It can be =20
used for composing structures and processing sounds.

Thanks again for you reply and apologies if this post is somehow =20
irrelevant to the list.

Best
Peiman


On 23 Apr 2006, at 02:34, Steven Yi wrote:

> Hi Peiman,
>
> Thanks for alerting me to this bug; it seems that I made an assumption
> in the code that worked when I first build BSB, but since adding the
> ObjectBuilder and EffectsEditor that reuses the code, is no longer
> correct.  I'll be fixing that and uploading a bug fix version in an
> hour or two.
>
> For the short term however, you can use the shortcuts (which is what I
> use normally and the reason I missed that the popup was a bug!):
>
> Ctrl-X - Cut selected Objects
> Ctrl-C - Copy Selected Objects
> Delete - Delete Selected Objects
> Ctrl-Left Mouse Click - Paste Copied objects
>
>
> As for Etude, I'm very glad you enjoyed it!  As for the aesthetic
> question, I don't often find myself thinking of things being written
> for "real" instruments or not, and consider sounds, regardless of
> their origin, whether sampled, synthetic, analyzed and resynthesized,
> etc., as being sounds, each with their own qualities. When I am
> working with the sounds I use, I find that the material is often
> inseparable from the qualities of the sound themselves, and the
> balancing of the material is highly dependent upon the sounds I am
> using.  I think if the sounds of the piece were to exchanged with
> different sounds, the quality of the piece would be very different,
> and perhaps the experience of the work.  Not that it would necessarily
> have a bad result, but just very different.
>
> I think the synthetic sounds used in Etude really have a certain
> presence and richness that are very different than the quality of
> sounds from the standard body of Western instruments found in the
> orchestra.  Also, there are things being done that would be near
> impossible to get out of performers, the triangular envelope which I
> use.  The organ sound would also be impossible to have as it sounds in
> the piece if performed on a live organ as it uses the triangular
> envelope and does so with notes sounded together but performed at
> different times.
>
> Another concern of mine--one that is very important to me in regards
> to blue--is that if I was to notate this in standard notation to be
> performed by live musicians on acoustic instruments, to get the timing
> exactly as I have in the piece, the notation would become rediculously
> complex, to the point that the notation required to keep everything
> accuratley in sync amongst a body of performers would service to keep
> the whole performing together but the notation would not reflect the
> musical intention of what I wanted.
>
> This is to me one of the biggest difficulties of notation and reason
> why I don't do it very often.  I use notation to sketch an idea for
> single lines, or to notate harmonies, but when it comes to working
> with the ideas in time and coordinating them, the ideas are lost.  For
> example, let's say the musical idea is four quarter notes.  Now, in
> stretto, before the completion of the idea I'd like to introduce a
> second performance of the musical idea, to be played with the same
> character as four even quarter notes, but the entrance is to come in
> on the third eigth note of a quintuplet and the durations of the notes
> to last six quintuplets each, it is notatable with tied quintuplets
> but the performance is near impossible.  The effect desired is an
> echo, slightly slower, perhaps transposed, but because of the
> difficult notation where note starts are coming in on awkard divisions
> of the beat, it would be hard pressed for a performer to read that and
> perform without some syncopation to the performance.
>
> Feldman to some degree exploits that quality in his notation,
> sometimes notating things differently that in absolute measurements
> would be exactly the same, but in performance have a different quality
> as the performer is working of a metrical pulse.  A simplistic example
> of this is a 3/4 measure with dotted quarter, dotted quarter, then the
> next mesaure being 2/4 and having quarter, quarter, with a metric
> modulation of dotted quarter =3D quarter.
>
> The alternative to this is to represent the ideas as they are and
> signal entry points, similar to how Crumb notates some of his music
> with arrows showing when one line of material enters in relationship
> to another line.  This allows the intention of the performed line to
> be respected, but it also introduces a degree of freedom of
> interpretation, which if that is fine within the context of the music
> is great, but if the time is delicate and requires some fair degree of
> exactness, can ruin the piece.
>
> In blue, it is easy for me to notate something as four quarter notes,
> take a copy and augment the duration slightly, transpose, and have it
> enter exactly where I feel it is effective, to listen and adjust.
> This is one of the biggest reasons I started blue in the first place,
> to allow this kind of freedom to represent lines as they are but also
> have subtle, delicate adjustments to time.
>
> Well, hope that sheds some light on some of my concerns in the piece
> as well as some of the things which are on my mind in regards to
> notation, acoustic, and electronic music, and perhaps a bit of my
> point of view which often finds its way into blue.
>
> steven
>
>
>
>
> On 4/22/06, Peiman Khosravi <pei...@ao...> wrote:
>> Dear Steven,
>>
>> I have been following the development of blue for sometime (since I
>> started learning Csound!) and am using it with great pleasure for
>> sound design...
>>
>> A few moments ago I was trying to use the synthbuilder to make a
>> simple instrument when [I think!] a strange behavior was brought to
>> my attention: I am unable to delete, cut or copy GUI objects inserted
>> on the synthbuilder environment. I right click on the object then
>> select remove but nothing happens. Am I perhaps doing something =20
>> wrong?
>>
>> I am on a OSX 10.4.6 laptop.
>>
>> I would very much appreciate any comments
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Peiman
>>
>> P.S. I very much enjoyed hearing your recent piece "etude". Great
>> orchestral sounds and textures with a lot of depth. The only thing
>> that I found maybe a little questionable on an aesthetic level was if
>> perhaps it could have been written for real instruments (?). Although
>> there is such great attention to detail (particularly tuning) that I
>> think the use of the computer is justified. All the best :-)
>> Peiman
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, =20
> security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your =20
> job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache =20
> Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=120709&bid&3057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
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