Re: [Bluemusic-users] Questions on Effects for Mixer
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From: Steven Y. <ste...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 22:43:40
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Hi Michael, Thanks for the reply. I'm afraid that it's all still very mixed up in my head and I'm trying very hard to figure out an implementation; hopefully you all won't mind if I brainstorm here. Currently, the mixer is assuming that nchnls audio is being produced by an instrument. Not assuming this may cause a lot more work, but I'm interested in getting this right so don't mind. Now, I think maybe we should keep this to mono and stereo issues at the moment for the sake of making this a little easier to comprehend (for me at least!). I guess what's going on in my mind now are: -mixer channels are nchnls in/out. I think that nchnls out should be required; making nchnls or less for the mixer in seems doable -in between the input and output, the signal may go through various effects, which may have either one or two channels in and one or two channels out -the issue will be matching up num inputs and num outputs, and the rules should be the same starting from the input to the channels, through the effects, and out the channel out -if signal in is mono and effect in is mono, no worries -if signal in is stereo and effect in is stereo, no worries -if signal in is mono and effect in is stereo, my assumption is to make two copies of the signal and feed in to both channels of the stereo in -if signal in is stereo and effect in is mono, my assumption is to duplicate the effect and run two copies individually on both channels, barring that the effect out is also mono; if the effect in is mono and the output stereo, then mix the stereo input signal to a mono signal (simple add) and feed in Does this sound right? Also, for effects, I think that they should have a fixed number in and out when you define and create/code them. This will require users to create a mono version and stereo version should they need to have different versions unless the rules above work fine for you (i.e. you have a mono-in/mono-out delay plugin, you could use it on a stereo track and know that both channels will be echoed with the same values with two instances of the mono plugin). Besides effects, I was also planning to implement sends, though this is complicated to me. The program's I've seen allow doing sends pre-fader and post-fader, and this seems to designate where in the sending channel it sends the signal. For the receiving channel, I'm not quite sure where it enters into the mix, if it gets mixed in with the other input signals that are channeled in to it. Can anyone clarify? (This is issue is a little more complicated than I imagined so will likely push this to the release after the effects are implemented). Now, a trickier problem is what to do for nhcnls > 2. I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment on that one. I'd love to find some kind of generic rules where if the "num output from one is less than num channels in, then..." that could scale to n- number of channels, but I'm not sure there are such rules, so maybe the mixer should be classified as a stereo mixer only for now, and if you're doing more than stereo, perhaps just don't use the mixer.(???) steven On 2/26/06, Michael Bechard <got...@ya...> wrote: > I just meant having an effect that took one or two > inputs and produced one or two outputs. Any > combination. As far as channels are concerned, I guess > that depends. I suppose ideally I would want the > option to have any channel be either mono or stereo, > and any effect to be as I described above. > > For instance, if I've got a channel that has only one > output, but I've got an effect that takes two inputs, > I'd like to be able to stick that effect on the > channel and have it route the same signal into both > effect inputs. Likewise, if I have a stereo channel > and want to apply a mono effect, it should combine the > signal from the channel and feed it into the one input > of the effect. Obviously, channels and effects with > matching numbers of outputs and inputs wouldn't be a > problem, with one or two; it would just be a matter of > matching output to input. > > I hope that's a little clearer. Can't wait to check > this stuff out. > > Michael > > --- Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> wrote: > > > Hi Michael, > > > > Thanks for your reply! Could you clarify what you > > mean by having an > > effect work on one or two channels? Within the > > context of the mixer, > > does this mean to allow adding effects to only one > > audio channel of a > > mixer channel (i.e. the left audio in of channel 1)? > > Or does this > > mean that when you build the effect and you use it > > in blue, that the > > same effect object could work with both a project of > > nchnls=3D1 and > > nchnls=3D2? > > > > BTW: Getting this kind of feedback is *very* > > valuable to me as I only > > know my own way of working, which is pretty much > > stereo all the time, > > and I'd like to make this a system that is robust in > > its design to > > handle what everyone else would like to do too > > (because one day I > > might want to do things differently too!). > > > > An csound code example would be very helpful as well > > for me to > > understand your way of thinking about the matter. > > > > Regarding the Java option, what I was originally > > thinking was that > > someone might want to create an effects object in > > Java that has a > > fancy UI to show parametric EQ or something like > > that, but in honesty > > I think most users won't go that distance (no has > > yet built a plugin > > for blue that I'm aware of besides myself, which is > > a good thing I > > guess in that it means the existing plugins are > > fairly robust). I'll > > go ahead with the assumption that users will use > > user-defined effect > > (code and UI done within blue) and design the > > architecture for that. > > If users need new widgets for their UI's, then we > > can just add more > > BSB Widgets and then all of the BSB-based tools can > > also get them too. > > > > Thanks again for your reply! > > steven > > > > > > On 2/25/06, Michael Bechard <got...@ya...> > > wrote: > > > I know I'd like the flexibility of making an > > effect > > > use one or two channels, as alot of my current > > effects > > > are that way. I don't think I care about whether > > or > > > not a Java plugin could generate effect code. > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > --- Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > I was about to get started on the Effects part > > the > > > > mixer system and > > > > was interested to get some feedback. Currently > > I am > > > > planning that > > > > Effects be user-definable, using Csound code for > > the > > > > coding and > > > > BlueSynthBuilder widgets to create a > > User-Interface > > > > for the effects. > > > > The effects would be edited in a library manager > > > > that is program wide, > > > > stored in the user's .blue directory. > > > > > > > > Adding an effect would be done on the mixer > > > > channels, and to edit the > > > > effect you double-click the effect and the > > interface > > > > that was created > > > > in the library is shown to configure the effect. > > > > > > > > Now, I am concerned about what to do with nchnls > > of > > > > possible > > > > inputs/outputs. Should effects have an option > > to > > > > set how many > > > > channels they are made for? > > > > > > > > Also, do you think that it should be possible > > for > > > > Effects to be > > > > first-rate java classes, meaning that someone > > could > > > > make their own > > > > custom user-interface in Java code that would > > emit > > > > csound code but > > > > that the user wouldn't be able to edit codewise > > > > (Effect would then be > > > > a plugin type like SoundObjects, Instruments, > > and > > > > NoteProcessors are)? > > > > If so, that adds a layer of abstraction to the > > code > > > > that would make > > > > it trickier to handle. > > > > > > > > Well, any thoughts on the above would be very > > much > > > > appreciated! > > > > steven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a > > > > groundbreaking scripting language > > > > that extends applications into web and mobile > > media. > > > > Attend the live webcast > > > > and join the prime developer group breaking into > > > > this new coding territory! > > > > > > > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Bluemusic-users mailing list > > > > Blu...@li... > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? 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Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting langua= ge > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webc= ast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territor= y! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat= =3D121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bluemusic-users mailing list > Blu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users > |