Re: [Bluemusic-users] Freeze-rendering vs. rendering in realtime
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kunstmusik
From: Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> - 2014-04-17 14:08:04
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Hi Jan Jacob, I wonder if this may be a situation where the source audio is stuck on a last value? Are you using the Blue mixer at all? Also, could you send me the project off-list to experiment with? Thanks! steven On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Jan Jacob Hofmann <jj...@so...> wrote: > Dear Steven, > > I investigated further: The noise comes from an from my global reverb, but only when I do freeze the sound files. The noise is 1 sec. long, which exactly matches the length of the delay line used there. My reverb is basically the reverb-design created by Sean Costello coded as an UDO. It uses its own output - fed back in a delay-line. Somewhere in the delay line the noise arrises. I do post the whole reverb-design below for information. Inserted into this I put notes about my tests, my testing-set-up to isolate the origin of the noise and the result of that testing as comments: "+" means noise in frozen Sound-Objects, "-" means clean sound in frozen SoundObjects. > > The strange thing is, that rendering in real-time and rendering to disk (even both with ksmps=100) does not produce any noise in my sound files at all. So I think, something in the process of freezing is different that the feedback-delay-line might behave differently. > > So If you, Steven, or anybody else has a clue what is going on there (and how it could be changed ;-)), I'd be most interested to know. > > All the best, > > Jan Jacob > > > > > ; 12 delay line FDN reverb, with feedback matrix based upon > ; physical modeling scattering junction of 12 lossless waveguides > ; of equal characteristic impedance. Based on Julius O. Smith III, > ; "A New Approach to Digital Reverberation using Closed Waveguide > ; Networks," Proceedings of the International Computer Music > ; Conference 1985, p. 47-53 (also available as a seperate > ; publication from CCRMA), as well as some more recent papers by > ; Smith and others. > ; > ; Coded by Sean Costello, October 1999/ modified by Jan Jacob Hofmann August 2005 > ; Note: arevsig is the global input to the reverb. > > setksmps 1 ; seting ksmps to 1 as feedback lines are used > > > arevsig, irvbdecay, irandpchmod, icutofffreq xin > > afilt1 init 0 > afilt2 init 0 > afilt3 init 0 > afilt4 init 0 > afilt5 init 0 > afilt6 init 0 > afilt7 init 0 > afilt8 init 0 > afilt9 init 0 > afilt10 init 0 > afilt11 init 0 > afilt12 init 0 > > ; Delay times chosen to be prime numbers. > ; Works with sr=44100/ sr=48000 ONLY. If you wish to > ; use a different delay time, find some new > ; prime numbers that will give roughly the > ; same delay times for the new sampling rate. > ; Or adjust to taste. > > if sr = 48000 goto delaytime48000 ; delaytime chosen for sr=44100 > > idel1 = (1237.000/sr) > idel2 = (1381.000/sr) > idel3 = (1609.000/sr) > idel4 = (1777.000/sr) > idel5 = (1951.000/sr) > idel6 = (2063.000/sr) > idel7 = (1069.000/sr) > idel8 = ( 967.000/sr) > idel9 = (1889.000/sr) > idel10 = (1693.000/sr) > idel11 = (1453.000/sr) > idel12 = (1291.000/sr) > > goto contin > > delaytime48000: ; delaytime for sr=48000 > > idel1 = (1361.000/sr) > idel2 = (1499.000/sr) > idel3 = (1753.000/sr) > idel4 = (1933.000/sr) > idel5 = (2129.000/sr) > idel6 = (2243.000/sr) > idel7 = (1163.000/sr) > idel8 = (1051.000/sr) > idel9 = (2053.000/sr) > idel10 = (1693.000/sr) > idel11 = (1847.000/sr) > idel12 = (1409.000/sr) > contin: > > igain = irvbdecay ; gain of reverb. Adjust empirically > ; for desired reverb time. .6 gives > ; a good small "live" room sound, .8 > ; a small hall, .9 a large hall, > ; .99 an enormous stone cavern. > > ipitchmod = irandpchmod ; amount of random pitch modulation > ; for the delay lines. 1 is the "normal" > ; amount, but this may be too high for > ; held pitches such as piano tones. > ; Adjust to taste. > > itone = icutofffreq ; Cutoff frequency of lowpass filters > ; in feedback loops of delay lines, > ; in Hz. Lower cutoff frequencies results > ; in a sound with more high-frequency > ; damping. > > ; k1-k8 are used to add random pitch modulation to the > ; delay lines. Helps eliminate metallic overtones > ; in the reverb sound. > > k1 randi .001, 3.1, .06 > k2 randi .0011, 3.5, .9 > k3 randi .0017, 1.11, .7 > k4 randi .0006, 3.973, .3 > k5 randi .001, 2.341, .63 > k6 randi .0011, 1.897, .17 > k7 randi .0017, 0.891, .19 > k8 randi .0006, 3.221, .44 > k9 randi .001, 1.891, .88 > k10 randi .0011, 2.317, .95 > k11 randi .0017, 1.091, .36 > k12 randi .0006, 2.821, .41 > > ; apj is used to calculate "resultant junction pressure" for > ; the scattering junction of e.g. 8 lossless waveguides > ; of equal characteristic impedance. If you wish to > ; add more delay lines, simply add them to the following > ; equation, and replace the .25 by 2/N, where N is the > ; number of delay lines. > > apj = .16666666667 * (afilt1 + afilt2 + afilt3 + afilt4 + afilt5 + afilt6 +afilt7 + afilt8 + afilt9 + afilt10 +afilt11 + afilt12) > > > adum1 delayr 1 > adel1 deltapi idel1 + k1 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt1 > > adum2 delayr 1 > adel2 deltapi idel2 + k2 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt2 > > adum3 delayr 1 > adel3 deltapi idel3 + k3 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt3 > > adum4 delayr 1 > adel4 deltapi idel4 + k4 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt4 > > adum5 delayr 1 > adel5 deltapi idel5 + k5 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt5 > > adum6 delayr 1 > adel6 deltapi idel6 + k6 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt6 > > adum7 delayr 1 > adel7 deltapi idel7 + k7 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt7 > > adum8 delayr 1 > adel8 deltapi idel8 + k8 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt8 > > adum9 delayr 1 > adel9 deltapi idel9 + k9 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt9 > > adum10 delayr 1 > adel10 deltapi idel10 + k10 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt10 > > adum11 delayr 1 > adel11 deltapi idel11 + k11 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt11 > > adum12 delayr 1 > adel12 deltapi idel12 + k12 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig + apj - afilt12 > > > ; ************TEST*************************** > ; + = noise in frozen soundObjects > ; - = no noise in frozen soundObjects > > atonetest init 0 > adumtest delayr 1 > adeltest deltapi idel12 + k12 * ipitchmod > delayw arevsig - atonetest; + apj - atonetest > atonetest tone arevsig * igain, itone > outs adeltest, adeltest > ; arevsig - > ; apj + > ; afilt1, afilt2 + > ; adel1, adel2 + > ; atonetest - > ; adeltest - > ; ************TEST*************************** > > > ; 1st order lowpass filters in feedback > ; loops of delay lines. > > afilt1 tone adel1 * igain, itone > afilt2 tone adel2 * igain, itone > afilt3 tone adel3 * igain, itone > afilt4 tone adel4 * igain, itone > afilt5 tone adel5 * igain, itone > afilt6 tone adel6 * igain, itone > afilt7 tone adel7 * igain, itone > afilt8 tone adel8 * igain, itone > afilt9 tone adel9 * igain, itone > afilt10 tone adel10 * igain, itone > afilt11 tone adel11 * igain, itone > afilt12 tone adel12 * igain, itone > > > > > > > > xout afilt1 , afilt2 , afilt3 , afilt4 , afilt5 , afilt6 , afilt7 , afilt8, afilt9 , afilt10 , afilt11 , afilt12 > > > > > > > > > > > sound | movement | object | space > sonic architecture | site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de > spatial electronic composition | higher order ambisonic music > > Am 11.04.2014 um 20:56 schrieb Steven Yi: > >> Hi Jan Jacob, >> >> Thanks and hope it solves your issue. For now, I've gone ahead and >> put the release up on Sourceforge as 2.5.12. I'm going to close out >> the hotfix branch so that I can continue on with my other development >> work. >> >> Thanks! >> steven >> >> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jan Jacob Hofmann >> <jj...@so...> wrote: >>> Dear Steven, >>> >>> yes, thanks Steven, I will. It will be not before tomorrow though, as >>> I will be working until midnight in the cinema and I only have my >>> laptop with me, which is still on OS X 10.6. >>> >>> I am very, very curious. >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Jan Jacob >>> >>> >>> sound | movement | object >>> | space >>> sonic architecture | site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de >>> spatial electronic composition | higher order ambisonic music >>> >>> Am 11.04.2014 um 18:06 schrieb Steven Yi: >>> >>>> Hi Jan Jacob, >>>> >>>> Could you try this release: >>>> >>>> http://www.kunstmusik.com/blue_OSX_2.5.12.zip >>>> >>>> I tested here and freezing used the disk render settings here. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> steven >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Jan Jacob, >>>>> >>>>> I think there is a bug. It looks like when I redid the render service >>>>> code, I had the freezing code use the realtime settings instead of >>>>> the >>>>> disk settings. Let me create another hotfix branch and do a fix. I'll >>>>> post a build for you to test shortly. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> steven >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Jan Jacob Hofmann >>>>> <jj...@so...> wrote: >>>>>> Dear Steven, dear list, >>>>>> >>>>>> being now able to render much more in realtime, I noticed a strange >>>>>> phenomenon on which I have no explanation so far: >>>>>> >>>>>> Listeneng carefully to frozen sound objects of mine reveals textures >>>>>> of unwanted noise after every single short sound event. The sound >>>>>> quality is somehow not so clean, there are also some artefacts in my >>>>>> sounds. The noise persists about 1 sec. after every note event, then >>>>>> it is silent until the next sound starts. >>>>>> >>>>>> First I thought, there is something wrong with my instrument but >>>>>> then >>>>>> I found out, that the sound is clean as can be if listened to in >>>>>> realtime. >>>>>> The strange thing is that I do render with ksmps= 10 in realtime and >>>>>> ksmps=1 to disk. I would therefore expect the rendering to disk >>>>>> having >>>>>> the better sound quality in general. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I wonder, which settings Freezing uses, the ones for realtime- >>>>>> rendering, disk rendering (as I would expect) or something else, >>>>>> taylor-made for Freezing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Partly I am asking just out of curiosity, I would like to know >>>>>> what is >>>>>> behind things, partly I wonder, if maybe something else is wrong >>>>>> with >>>>>> my code. Actually I am not minding the quality, it is allright for >>>>>> freezing, as long as it sounds clean at the end. But I wonder >>>>>> where It >>>>>> might come from. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jan Jacob >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> sound | movement | object >>>>>> | space >>>>>> sonic architecture | site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de >>>>>> spatial electronic composition | higher order ambisonic music >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Put Bad Developers to Shame >>>>>> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration >>>>>> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment >>>>>> Start a new project now. 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