Re: [Bluemusic-users] blue brainstorming
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Re: [Bluemusic-users] blue brainstorming
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From: Steven Y. <ste...@gm...> - 2008-04-02 16:19:43
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Hi Michael, Once a soundObject is frozen, when it is played back, it does not go through the mixer but goes straight out using outc (I think outc, but regardless one of the out opcodes). So it's a bit confusing, but effects will run, but they won't be applied again to the frozen file. I'll see if I can't push in some extra code today to do the instrumentInUse check. Thanks! steven On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Michael Bechard <got...@ya...> wrote: > Yeah, that makes sense, and thanks for putting that in so quickly. > > I was wondering about that post too, because that is what it sounds like you're saying, but I wasn't sure. So after you freeze a sound object with effects then play it back, you basically hear the effects applied twice? I think if you do the check for i-statements as you mentioned, that would solve this problem too. > > Thanks again, and I'll try to check out your changes soon. > > > Michael Bechard > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> > To: blue users mailing list <blu...@li...> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 5:06:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Bluemusic-users] blue brainstorming > > I reread that nabble post and I think I said that effects get frozen > to the frozen audio file but also get run due to association with > instrument, which I'm pretty sure is the case. > > I've checked in code just now that, if you have muted an instrument in > the orchestra, it will now remove the associated mixer channel before > CSD generation. That will knock out all channel related generation > like effects and applying fader, then normal mixer dependency graph > checking will kick in and optimize out any other channels down the > graph if they no longer have inputs. If you can, could you download > from CVS and give it a try? > > I'll see about checking what it'd take to do an extra ID check that > could look at the generated i-statements and remove instruments when > no i-statements are found for that instrument. One thing is that I'll > have to make sure that the processing order is correct. The second > thing is that this might have to be a project property, as it might be > the case that there will be projects where users have no i-statements > and do everything from event opcodes or MIDI. So I imagine it'd have > to be a user choice. > > Sound good for a user-defined option? > steven > > > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Michael Bechard <got...@ya...> wrote: > > I remember reading in a previous post (http://www.nabble.com/forum/ViewPost.jtp?post=14815377) you saying effects weren't being frozen. If that's changed since then, great. > > > > Yes, the ability to play mid frozen object has been implemented, but it still doesn't play from the correct time if the tempo isn't 60. Again, this may have been fixed already; I think my current version of blue is 120 (I don't have access to my home computer at the moment)? > > > > Anyway, yeah, having all the effects run all the time is the biggest issue for me. Adding a check in there to only play effects on enabled instruments *currently being rendered* would be fantastic. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Michael Bechard > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> > > To: blue users mailing list <blu...@li...> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 4:16:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [Bluemusic-users] blue brainstorming > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > Regarding 2, effects should be getting bounced when freezing. > > Regarding 1, that seems like a bug. The ability to to play mid-frozen > > object was already put in, wasn't it? I think then from what I'm > > reading, the biggest issue is to make sure to check if instruments are > > enabled or not and also if they are sending signals to channels or > > not. If so, turn off rendering effects and mixer paths that aren't > > necessary. > > > > The dependency checking code for the mixer is somewhat hairy, but I > > think with a little time today I could probably see if I couldn't do a > > fix. > > > > Thanks! > > steven > > > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Michael Bechard <got...@ya...> wrote: > > > Sorry for the late thought here, I know this thread is getting old. > > > > > > Anyway, my main issue with blue at this point is the sound freezing. My compositions get unwieldy very quickly, and currently I use Cubase to do final mixing polish on a piece once it's about 80-90% finished (after bouncing each instrument's part to it's own wav file/track). Part of the reason for this is the abundance of quality VSTs available, but the main reason is that it's much easier to tweak levels, EQ, panning, etc. in Cubase, especially when I'm dealing with just wav files and no VSTi's. > > > > > > However, even when relying on Cubase for the final mix, things usually get very sluggish when I'm only 30-40% finished, and there are multiple reasons for this, and they mainly boil down to my heavy reliance on effects: > > > > > > 1. Effects are always rendered, even when an instrument is disabled in the orchestra. One has to disable the effect itself to make sure it doesn't render. This is impractical when you start dealing with dozens of effects. > > > 2. Effects are not bounced when a given object is frozen (at least I *think* this is the case) > > > > > > One needs a way to focus on a particular segment of a piece, no matter what the size and no matter where it may be, and only make csound render those elements that are pertinent to that segment. One also needs to easily pre-render anything they like and have it play back reliably, from mid-point, for any length and any tempo, for virtually zero CPU usage. This currently isn't the case due to the handling of effects and miscellaneous bugs. > > > > > > Other than that it's great! :-P > > > > > > Michael Bechard > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Steven Yi <ste...@gm...> > > > To: blue users mailing list <blu...@li...> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:00:41 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Bluemusic-users] blue brainstorming > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Just to note, I am starring all these emails and will be collecting > > > them into a document later tonight. I may look at either a Wiki, a > > > Google shared doc, or some other means to keep these all updated and > > > publicly accessible. I will probably do the collection tonight and > > > will try to reply to everyone when all the ideas have batched up. > > > > > > Also, thanks all so far for your replies! Please do keep the > > > discussion going, I think it's really helpful to see what people are > > > doing and seeing where they'd like to head with all of this. > > > > > > Regarding Hannes' email, I think it's very important to keep blue > > > focused on the task of composing versus a live music tool. Now, being > > > able to work live is important to the compositional experience, so > > > certainly we should try to put in everything we can. I have not > > > really thought through the whole idea of what would be required for > > > more Live-like experience and honestly don't know if it would fit > > > within the blue framework and if another tool more focused on that > > > wouldn't be more appropriate. I think it's great to look at all the > > > > > > possibilities, but we should make sure blue does what it focuses on as > > > a priority *if we have to choose*, but hopefully it will all be > > > possible. =) > > > > > > Thanks and looking forward to hearing more ideas! > > > steven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:07 AM, hannes kahl <mer...@gm...> wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > Integration of the Csound API is relatively easy I think, and will be the solution for live interaction with blue. The Java and Python wrapping is very well and can help a lot. BUT: > > > > > > > One have to consider is blue a composition environment (than more interest should point to the visual representation of music (UPIC, ChucK-Audicile, IanniX, SND, LilyPond can be inspiring)) OR is blue a life workstation. Blue development, I think, can not go to both directions. Abstract environments like chuck and SC3 can help with usefull ideas about life handling of text. Text is alway closer to composition. Text is not a interface, but still creation. > > > > > > > > However MIDI as a common technology is needed. I will publish more thoughts on this after completely having a look at CS3, ChucK, SndObj, PySndObj, PD, Common music, Squeak, J and CMask and some selected programms. > > > > The things mentioned by Steven are very right. > > > > Ciao Hannes Kuechenchef Kahl > > > > -- > > > > |_____________________________________________________| > > > > |_____________________________________________________| > > > > > > > www.uni-weimar.de/~ubbe7936 > > > > |_____________________________________________________| > > > > Hannes Kahl > > > > |_____________________________________________________| > > > > |_____________________________________________________| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? 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